Curse

Seef II · Jan 18, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sledgeunderhill

I've not tried it in the PvP arenas yet for my warrior. Given this, the PvE aspect of this helm vs mursaat in the final missions is quite nice. If you're a warrior, don't think about Ring of Fire or Abbadon's Mouth without this helm. Also, vs Ice Imps this helm is critical for IDS runs as a swap.

Like any mursaat really hex you besides life transfer. Spectral agony isn't affected.

dargon · Jan 18, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

if it's making certain skills nolonger work rather than just shorter, thats a bug that nees to be fixed but it's not the helms fault. The helm is perfectly balanced for what it does. For the record, I don't run a warrior, my current pve characters are a ranger, ele and a necro.

Maxiemonster · Jan 18, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Nah, I think this gives a whole new level to Warrior solo'ing, and in my opinion, the Warrior should always stay the profession with the most solo skills. Warriors are mostly not the hex target in PVP though, the thing that bugs me is that you need to make a PVE character just for this helmet.

By the way: Craft one of these helmets. It might get nerfed (which I doubt), and you can't buy this if it does get nerfed, unlike nerfed items.

CyberNigma · Jan 18, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

I dont think many warriors in pvp will lose much sleep over losing 20AL, 50% hex duration makes them vulnerable to wrastels, but mesmers dont often pack wrastels in just incase they run into a warr with the helm. The helmet also helps on relic runs a lot, as its usually the warr thats got to do the running they tend to take slow down hex's alot.

That sounds like its the Mesmer's fault, not the Warrior's. I don't think I'd really nerf something because it would require another class to carry a skill that they don't want to :-) If it becomes popular, then mesmers can either carry Worry or not. It's not like this is Burger King. You adapt.

Person 1: That build is unbalanced because of..so and so..
Person 2: Well, you can take these skills/spells to tear them a new one.
Person 1: But I don't want to carry those skills/spells and shouldn't have to, so please nerf it.

Besides, with a few exceptions, ANet doesn't nerf things that COULD be unbalanced (exceptions of course like the double mod axe, a no-brainer), but rather makes corrections after they see play involving unbalanced teams/builds. After all, how many warrior heavy builds have dominated PvP other than IWAY (which has other implications to it being the way it is)? When and if we see a Lt's build winning all the team (outside of IWAY) then I imagine they will look into it.

As for me, when I wear it I seem to die faster in pve if I get anywhere near something that's going to hit me. I personally would like to play with my PvE pet in something other than IWAY in pvp, but I know it'd be a waste. I'm not going to ask for everyone else to be nerfed so that I can play the way I want to in PvP though. I just adapt and play what needs to be played to win (or I play with my pet in PvE). Because of those reasons, I never use my PvE chars in PvP anymore. I just create a pvp-only char that has access to all the good stuff (my PvE chars don't even have sup vigs/sup aborb).

nirhan shadowmauler · Jan 18, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

yea i picked up a few on my warrior so that i can put different runes on them for different builds in pvp. then i was pvping with it. and it doesnt help much when you get like spiteful spirit and empathy and stuff like that stacked on you. you still die just as fast. warriors neeeeed a better hex defense. right now so many necro/mesmers are doing warrior shut down. THAT is imbalanced. not this helm.

Zeru · Jan 18, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

It's amazing how people can come up with all these idiotic reasons to oppose all this blatantly obvious conclusion. Just more evidence of why the quality at gwguru is at an all time low.

The loss of armor is not a factor at all. The weakness to wastrels is but that is countered by fast helmet switching and top level warriors are quite good at doing this. The head gets hit 12.5% of the time, so trying to spike someone out just because they have a lt. helm on is simply stupid.

When running a warrior heavy build in gvg you practically don't have to care about hex removal for the warriors since the hex helmet is just going to make their hexes so inefficient which is utterly absurd and is one of the reasons why warriors are so powerful at the present moment (think back to what teams used in the playoffs if you doubt this).

Morangen · Jan 18, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I can see why other classed dont like the helm, but I dont see why it should be nerfed. Like people have pointed out it has its ups and downs, but thats just the way it is. Wars have the least amount of energy in the game. Sure they get the gladiators armor but that still doesnt let them compete with other classes. They also dont get any kind of way to maximize their use of energy, whether its fast casting, or lower costs, or even the monks divine favor (I know that doesnt deal with energy directly).

It makes sense to me that wars have something like this. At least they dont have any condition based armor items. Besides you dont see very many warriors running around complaining about spiteful spirit or all the other nasty hexes that get used on them. Wars were designed to stay alive and yet the only thing that really stands between a war and a quick death by hex is an item like this or monk skills because armor does nothing when you health is at - 8 degen.

Ensign · Jan 18, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Then and if we see a Lt's build winning all the team (outside of IWAY) then I imagine they will look into it.

Did you watch the World Championship playoffs at all? Did you notice that the Warriors on the winning teams were exclusively PvE characters? Did you notice that they all had their helms hidden? Care to guess what percentage of them had hex helms in their inventories to put on if the other team was foolish enough to run anti-Warrior hexes?

I don't understand this 'oh, it seems ok to me, but they might look into it if it becomes a problem' attitude. It *is* a problem. They *know* it's a problem. They almost certainly already know how they're going to fix it, and just haven't rolled out the change yet because of the World Championships.

This isn't a trivial item like the HoD Sword or Axe (which give minor boosts that'll likely be mirrored in expensions anyway). This helm fundamentally breaks an important aspect of the game - hexes as a means of punishing Warriors. The sooner it is removed, the better off the game will be.

Peace,
-CxE

Deadlyjunk · Jan 18, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

The HoD Helm is in no way overpowered. Sure, it helps against hexes and that makes it good in PvP. I've even seen r9 IWAY switch to it against a blood necro degen group (we still owned them). Moving on: it's low armor and lack of any other bonus balances it out. It's good, maybe to the limit of balance, but not overpowered. Though I think there should be more armor pieces like it... we need more options!

Divinus Stella · Jan 18, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirhan shadowmauler

yea i picked up a few on my warrior so that i can put different runes on them for different builds in pvp. then i was pvping with it. and it doesnt help much when you get like spiteful spirit and empathy and stuff like that stacked on you. you still die just as fast. warriors neeeeed a better hex defense. right now so many necro/mesmers are doing warrior shut down. THAT is imbalanced. not this helm.

Every character in this game can be shutdown, why is a warrior shutdown imba?
Monks can remove the hex's, or you can pack hex breaker.

JR · Jan 18, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadlyjunk

The HoD Helm is in no way overpowered. Sure, it helps against hexes and that makes it good in PvP. I've even seen r9 IWAY switch to it against a blood necro degen group (we still owned them). Moving on: it's low armor and lack of any other bonus balances it out. It's good, maybe to the limit of balance, but not overpowered. Though I think there should be more armor pieces like it... we need more options!

Please read other posts in the thread, not just the first.

Jetdoc · Jan 18, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

This helm fundamentally breaks an important aspect of the game - hexes as a means of punishing Warriors.

Ensign, I wholeheartedly disagree. It's true that hexes are a way of punishing warriors. But the HoD helm allows warriors a defense to reduce the effect of those - it is NOT a way to eliminate those.

Casters have the same sort of protections against warriors. From physical resistance to armor of earth to just plain running around in a circle, casters have a way to counter the physical spike damage that warriors create.

Why it would it NOT be fair that warriors have the opportunity to defend against hexes at the cost of lower armor?

JR · Jan 18, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Ensign, I wholeheartedly disagree. It's true that hexes are a way of punishing warriors. But the HoD helm allows warriors a defense to reduce the effect of those - it is NOT a way to eliminate those.

Casters have the same sort of protections against warriors. From physical resistance to armor of earth to just plain running around in a circle, casters have a way to counter the physical spike damage that warriors create.

Why it would it NOT be fair that warriors have the opportunity to defend against hexes at the cost of lower armor?

The game as it stands, is balanced. I'm fairly sure you agree on that.

Now, you have warriors with the highest sustainable DPS going, and they are also hard targets. Why are they allowed to be so effective? Because two things shut them down so easily. Hexes and Conditions. They are just about the sole two reasons why people don't run 6 warriors and 2 monks in GvG. Then you throw the henge helm into the mix, which suddenly makes one of those two forms of shutdown useles. And you don't think that somehow imbalances it?

Vermilion Okeanos · Jan 18, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I also believe this helm is way overpowered.

Warrior's weakness = they easily debuffed (hex or condition)

With a good monk, condition is out in a few sec.
With this helm, hex are out in half of the time.

the less armor was mentioned before, irrelevant. You still got a caster armor for the head, and does that drop the caster in 1 hit? 2 hits? 3 hits? That is really depended on your monk anyway (and maybe your own healing). If the helm also make head armor being hit 100% of the time, yes, it would be fair. Actually, why don't Anet give all the caster warrior armor with a little set back?

So what is there to stop a warrior?

The funny thing is that warrior seem to get so many favor in terms of equipment, how come other class don't have anywhere close to this?

How are they going to fix this anyway? Is it in their policy to delete item inside a player's inventory? Or are they going to pray that the older day players quit soon? If they do nerf it now, wouldn't it make a very unfair advantage for the later competetitors (as the earlier player was able to get a hold of this)?

Also, one equipment make the entire society to go domination + W'sW? That seem very unbalanced there.

Jetdoc · Jan 18, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

JR - I'm confused - how does the HoD make hexes useless? Because it will cost a caster more to maintain a hex on a warrior?

One of the limitations of a warrior is that he has to focus on ONE enemy at a time and attempt to take out that enemy. One of the benefits of a caster is that you can attack multiple targets at the same time.

What the HoD helm does is require that, if one wants to shutdown a warrior, a caster must focus his attention on them and apply the hexes more consistently. Yes, it will result in the caster not being able to spread their attacks over multiple enemies, but in the end that levels the playing field.

If you disagree, ask yourself this - when a mesmer or a necro matches up 1v1 on a warrior wearing a HoD helm, who would normally win? Unless you can say "the warrior would win more than 75% of the time", then the game remains balanced, IMO.

General Wise Guy · Jan 18, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

when i get home im going to HoD to get me one of these. Is the armor guy or some1 else?

CyberNigma · Jan 18, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Well we can also limit the number of monks to one or two in the team arenas to make that more fair for a warrior team. We can also ban invinci-monks somehow from the arenas when a warrior team is involved to make that more fair. We can ban a ranger team from going up against an elementalist team since they like to counter all the slow-casting spells. We can make the warriors walk instead of run so they don't unfairly run outside of AoE spells like the mobs now do. We can stop a team of elementalist from being able to renew kinetic armor against warriors. There's always someone that's going to bother people.

Hex or no hex, take a party of warriors against a party of monks and the warriors will not win unless the monk players are monkeys. This just means groups have to switch a skill (oh no, change) to counter the helm such as Wastrel's Worry, which triggers earlier now. Even in PvE, warriors have been relegated to runners, ettin farmers, and gear/book holders because of the impression that they aren't good for much else. I'll be happy when they fix the gear/book issue btw.

Everything can be countered with something else. Take the monk/warrior dilemma. The warriors can take a ranger secondary or a full ranger and use the spirit that prevents rezzes (assuming they can still do enough damage to get around the constant heals). VS Warriors? Take Wastrel's Worry instead of one of your normal spells. Take more mesmers than normal. Cast shatter hex whenever a hex is about to wear off instead of leaving it on the full duration.

Besides, a mesmer/elementalist can sit there (once he/she gets kinetic armor off) and wear the warrior down, I imagine (disclaimer: haven't tried this yet), or ele/mes. Between kinetic armor and physical resistance, he/she shouldn't have a problem. Use aura of restoration (I think it is) and health will not be an issue either. In fact, I may try this build and see how it does :-)..

I personally find it frustrating to be a caster and not be able to get anything off because a ranger has me in his/her sights. That's just the way it goes though. I take someone to hit the ranger with something so I can cast.

JR · Jan 18, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Er, k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

JR - I'm confused - how does the HoD make hexes useless? Because it will cost a caster more to maintain a hex on a warrior?

Because key anti-warrior hexes that are being put on your warriors are only going to stick for half as long. Try maintaining Spitefull on 2-3 warriors when it is only lasting 10 seconds. Not to mention by having to keep your anti-warrior hexer focused on renewing hexes that are ending prematurely, it makes that character a whole lot more flexible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

One of the limitations of a warrior is that he has to focus on ONE enemy at a time and attempt to take out that enemy. One of the benefits of a caster is that you can attack multiple targets at the same time.

Elementalists in pvp tend to be focusing on one person, Mesmers and Necros will generally stack one person... Yes you can use a curses nec or illu mes to spread degen, but that is just spreading out your DPS. Equally a warrior could run around hacking at different people, it's just easier not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

What the HoD helm does is require that, if one wants to shutdown a warrior, a caster must focus his attention on them and apply the hexes more consistently. Yes, it will result in the caster not being able to spread their attacks over multiple enemies, but in the end that levels the playing field.

So you are saying that the henge helm somehow makes casters balanced? What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If you disagree, ask yourself this - when a mesmer or a necro matches up 1v1 on a warrior wearing a HoD helm, who would normally win? Unless you can say "the warrior would win more than 75% of the time", then the game remains balanced, IMO.

You can't talk about 1 vs 1's in this game. Comparing single character builds is like playing rock paper scissors.

Phades · Jan 18, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If you disagree, ask yourself this - when a mesmer or a necro matches up 1v1 on a warrior wearing a HoD helm, who would normally win? Unless you can say "the warrior would win more than 75% of the time", then the game remains balanced, IMO.

Going man to man with a front line offensive character designed to destroy suport characters like either of the above is not a wise decision, especially when you must commit a substantial portion of the build in order to be able to "solo" a warrior. However, once you throw monk healing into the mix for the warrior, that whole instance goes out the window, because the war will eventually wear down the support character(s).

This is why your argument is dismissed so easily. Shutdown is designed to make a difficult to control character more manage-able. This comes in two flavors, stop damage or stop healing. The method to do either is irrelevant. Considering most of the crowd control hex skills aoe size is not huge, have a fair energy cost and do not last an exceptionally long time, its not hard to see how an item like the helm will tilt the favor towards the warrior. It becomes more of a question of what other means are possesed aside from just hexes preventing the damage accrual from the warrior. Most of them lie within removable enchantments.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jan 18, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Yes.. We must use this when taking over the world with HoD swords; but we will have to use the Force to make sure nobody gets hit in the head! Great idea..